New Guy and his first 21

[Phil Carr]

I purchased my first 21 and am hoping to learn all I can. Mainly about the engraving. I have been given a opinion today from a respected engraver it looks like Griebel. I have included some pictures of this 21.


http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/?action=view&current=Model21005.jpg
http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/?action=view&current=Model21008.jpg
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http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/?action=view&current=Model21016.jpg
http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/?action=view&current=Model21031.jpg
http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/?action=view&current=Model21003.jpg

[budrichard]

A very interesting Model 21.
Is it a Trap or Skeet model? It has a Bradley target front sight.
The 'kidney' checkering pattern goes with the presentation date of the 1940's. I would expect if the engraving were Winchester that either A or B carving would have been on the gun so I would believe that the gun was stock and then engraved.
What is the gauge, barrel length and choke markings?
I would query Cody for a Factory Letter of original condition.
The case looks to be possibly a Heiser by the pattern which I have seen before on other cases, a very renown vintage leather maker.
Did you look very carefully with a magnifying glass for a name or initials? Sometimes these are hidden within scroll and it takes some time to locate. Hopefully someone will have more information on the engraver.-Dick

[Phil Carr]

The gun is a skeet model. 28" barrels choked Mod and full .018 and .040. I will pick the gun up in a few days. In Az dealers must hold the gun they buy or take on consignment for a couple of weeks before they can release. I will look the gun over very closely with a 10X once I receive it. Was the Bradley front sight an option from Winchester, or a common after market in the late 40's? Thanks for the information. I will googlr up Heiser cases and see what I find.
Phil

[budrichard]

Bradely front sight was standard on SKEET models and I believe TRAP, so that feature is original. SKEET models did not have recoil pads unless ordered that way. SKEET models were advertised as not just for competition but the ideal choke combination for upland hunting, as well they are!-Dick

[rperlichek]

Really nice gun. Good photo of the forearm viewed from below.
After you receive it, would you post the length and width of the forearm measured from the interface of the forearm iron and wood (bottom).

Also the width at widest point and at the front.

Thanks:
Robert Perlichek
Albuquerque, NM

[P.Muerrle]

Not done by anyone in the factory.

[Phil Carr]

Robert, I will be happy to provide these measurement.

[casonet]

Phil, very nice gun. If you don't have it, get Schwing's book. It is an outstanding reference and a great story. Madis also has some books you might find helpful Pauline is the living authority on engraving. I have enjoyed corresponding with her. Tom

[Rex]

I think I received a tie tac with company logo for my 25 year service anniversery.

[Phil Carr]

Robert the measurements of the forend is 9 1/4 inches in length, 1.694 at the back end where the metal meets the wood, 2.245 at the widest pint at the rear, and 2.196 at the widest point at the front. Hope these are the measurements you are looking for. If not PM me and I will take other measurements. As a follow up to the engraving. I purchased a 1972 Gun Digest, as well as Prudomme's engraving book and the details as compared to my gun leave me covinced Griebel did the engraving on the 21.

[Phil Carr]

Just a quick update and a question. I sent a letter last week to MR. McBains son. I received a very warm response back yesterday, and spoke to Mr. McBain the son today. He informed me his father loved the gun but shot less then 50 rounds, at possible Fieldsdale in Chicago. He is 82 but remembers his father shooting released birds. We will meet on Friday where we will have a copy of a very large photograph that was taken of his father holding the gun on the day the gun was presented to him. I am ecstatic about getting this photo.

[budrichard]

Just a wonderful provenance!
Pictures and if possible a signed letter from his son noting the history of the gun for future generations.-Dick

[Phil Carr]

Yes, I will get a letter stating the providence. I will also keep all of the written corespondance. I also hope to have a picture taken of him holding the gun as well.

[rperlichek]

Phil: Thanks again for posting the forend dimensions. Really nice wood on there.

Bob

[Phil Carr]

Just an update on my research so far. Here are a couple of pictures that I was able to get while research the history on this gun. Picture of Hugheston McBain President of Marshall Fields recieving the gun for 25 year of service on October 8, 1947. The other is a picture of James McBain, I took at his sons photo shop in September 2010. I also had a beautiful reproduction done on a Vanity Book put out that day of a golf outing, drinking with the guy,s, and celebrating. This book is a nice hard covered book with 20 pags or so, also showing the picture of recieving the gun. There is in addition a short blurb on him reciving it. It read. In the evening the guest of honor cut a 25 candle cake, and to the strains of the music supplied by the Directoire seven man Octettle, likewise recieved a handsome shotgun taylor-made to his measure, ........

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