Model 21 Customs with "salt wood"

[ajjar]

I've seen two 60's era Model 21's with corrosion on the receiver near the butt stock similar to the salt wood problems Browning faced.Are there any Model 21's with a salt wood problem? Thanks for any insight

[ajjar]

Never mind.I just found this by googleing "model 21 salt wood". Bummer



Dick,
Some of the Winchester Custom Shop Model 21s had salt wood. Don Criswell shared with me in a conversation I had with him 7-8 years ago that he personally had seen 5-6 M21s with salt wood, and he had heard about several others. I know of one M21 that had salt wood. Winchester will deny there was ever a problem with their guns, but if it was stocked in the mid-60s I would check the stock for salt. I recommend you take the stock off and verify if you have a problem or not.
Marvin

[budrichard]

Read my comment in the Googled Post,
"Not rust, just dried 'Sheath' protectant. When I saw the picture, I cleaned the joint and looked at the joint under 7X magnification.Thanks.-Dick"

Urban Legend is how i would refer to the so called Post about Winchester Model 21's out of the Custom Shop having salt wood. Corrosion can be from many sources and unless documented by the use of AgNo3, are not supported by any diagnostic testing. The crystals to make the solution can be obtained with a stiff HAZMAT fee for shipping and you must have some familiarity with making chemical solutions, an accurate scale in grams to obtain the correct concentration, all of which i possess.
The Browning Superposed 'salt wood' problem is a good example of a problem that has been blown way out of proportion and continues to this day. I have the required testing solution but in my collecting of Superposed never had cause to use it. I have seen Browning refinished salt guns personally so they do exist but in my dealings never came across one. If it were to corrode, it would have done so by now. I never took a single Super apart and readily bought and sold Super's including higher grades. I intend to do the same thing with the Custom Shop Model 21 20 gauge Magnum, leave it alone. As I Posted, the picture in the Googled Post shows what looks like rust but it is only build up from Sheath protectant.-Dick

[P.Muerrle]

Winchester had their own kiln. Don't know what Criswell was talking about. There was no salt wood on M21s.

[ajjar]

If I can post some pictures,I'll try to do so.The little 20 is from 1968.It has corrosion at the junction of the receiver and the butt stock only on one side,and the rest of the gun looks nearly perfect.I haven't taken the stock off yet but am planning on doing that to see what's inside.I saw a twelve gauge with similar corrosion several years ago,otherwise near pristine.Whatever the cause,there's corrosion.Of the two twenty-ones I've seen with it,both are from the 60's Custom shop.I know it's a small sample and I'm certainly not trying to stir anything up.Will post some pics as soon as I can.I appreciate all of the years of experience on this forum,and your opinions mean a lot to me

[ajjar]

https://picasaweb.google.com/drajones123/MyPictures#5573644055554506290

I couldn't get a picture to post so I added a link to the picture.I'd like to believe the corrosion isn't related to the wood,but there appears to be something that went on with the wood and the dark area in the stock I doubt was there when it left the factory.Any ideas?Thanks

[ajjar]

I just took the stock off and there's rust on the inside of the receiver on the same side.Not bad but probably needs a redo.Is it just me or looking at the stock,does it look like maybe somebody tried to repair a couple of chips with some filler? There also seems to be a wider gap at the bottom than the top like maybe a little filing was done.Also,all of the screws were a little buggered like somebody had removed the stock after it left the factory.I'm beginning to think the corrosion on the metal has more to do with the "repair" done to the stock.Hopefully,Pauline's right again!

[P.Muerrle]

Kind of looks like repairs in your pic but hard to tell for sure as sometimes pics can be deceiving. Does this gun letter? If screws are not all north and south and buggered to boot, someone has played with it.

[ajjar]

The gun letters except the pad had been replaced with another pad .The screws had definitely been messed with.And,if you look at the picture,the stock has two small spots next to the receiver where it looks like a filler was used because there's no grain there compared to the rest of the wood around it.

[budrichard]

The only way to determine if sodium chloride is on the wood is to test with a correct silver nitrate solution. Even if tested and showing up positive, if any type of compound containing salt was used in the repair. it would show up positive and that does not mean the gun was originally a salt wood gun. Corrosion comes in many forms.
I'm a Nuclear Engineer with a strong background in Qualitative Chemistry and a daughter with a BS and MS in Chemistry. I have studied the salt wood Browning history and have come to my own independant findings. The Browning salt wood histeria continues to this day as some will not touch a Super for fear of purchasing a salt wood gun. This of course keeps the actual Super price depressed and many out of the market.
There is no documnted reason to start another histeria about Winchester Model 21 salt wood guns. Pauline has Posted and hopefully that will satisfy one of the objectives of this Forum, to have correct information for Users.
But I am always willing to listen to documented objective evidence.
But for now, 'salt wood' in Winchester Model 21's goes into the 'Urban Legend' category.-Dick

[ajjar]

Dick,
I appreciate your input,and especially Pauline's.Her resource now almost stands alone.Thanks again

[cartod]

I have seen a few that were put away with the shooting glove on the reciever, looks about the same as your photo.