Choke Constriction

[rperlichek]

I would like to re-post the question to see if any 12 ga. Model '21 owners have measured the choke constriction on barrels marked "modified". If so, what did you find it to be? Also, for the 12ga. gun, do you find any variation in the nominal bore diameter?
Thanks

[btdtst]

The barrel marked modified on my one 21 with that boring is .012. The full barrel measures .034. The two skeet bored guns measure .006/.010 on one gun and .009/.016 on the other. Both marked WS1/WS2. All six barrels measure .731. Winchester seemed to be very picky on bore diameters and the conversely had wide variations in actual choke diameters.

[budrichard]

I have seen the same type of consistancy Winchester barrel ID.
12 gauge-Invariably FULL has always been 35 thousands.
I believe Winchester measured actual patterns to verify choke on some guns and at times in thier history, which would account for differences.
Schwing has a nice discussion and Tables on page 94 of his book.-Dick

[Tim Earney]

I have a Deluxe Field and the Modified barrel has .015 choke and the Improved Modified barrel has .025 and both pattern as marked.

[Slidehammer]

I would like to re-post the question to see if any 12 ga. Model '21 owners have measured the choke constriction on barrels marked "modified". If so, what did you find it to be? Also, for the 12ga. gun, do you find any variation in the nominal bore diameter?

Has anyone had experience measuring the "modified" choke constriction on the Model 97, 12 and 21 (12ga. guns)?

Thanks

rperlichek and all,

I have just joined this site. Two things prompted this. First and formost, I have just inherited my first Model 21! It is a 16ga. about as nice as it left Winchester in 1951! I have wanted a Model 21 (maybe more than one) for many years.... I was close to buying one new in 1962; balking only at the "steep" price of $385!!! So for almost 50 years now I have kicked myself for not doing it, as I could have afforded it at the time!
Secondly, I had seen your original post on this subject and wanted to respond as I have had some experience in measuring Winchester barrels as described in the last paragraph quoted above that I copied in from your original post.

First I have just read Schwing's book on the Winchester Model 21. On page 94 there is a chart that lists bore diameters and choke constriction for all common gauges and chokes. The 12ga Model 21 Modified choke is listed as a nominal .730" bore with a constriction range of .010" to .015".

My Model 21 experience is just starting, but I have quite a bit of experience on their pump guns.
I was blessed to acquire a BRAND NEW (old stock) Winchester Model 97 12ga barrel that had never been fitted to a gun! It was a 28" modified choke. The bore was .729" and choke constriction was .015". I also measured a 1920 '97 barrel, also a 28" mod years back.... It had a .730" bore and .018" constriction.

My opinion is that your choke(s) have been opened to Improved cylinder sometime in the past. I agree that Winchester was very good at keeping barrel tolerance very close even on their cheaper field guns. I have only measured one 12ga bore outside of .729"-.731" bore in probably 20 Winchester barrels I have checked over the years and that barrel was within the plus .005" tolerance Winchester specified as allowable. All chokes were in specs as well (per the Model 21 chart) other than the earlier mentioned 1920 Modified barrel that was slightly tighter.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Slidehammer

[Grant Tom]

During my trips to the 21 factory in New Haven. I received a list of chokes from the forman John Braught at the time of my visits there. I will share it with you.

The measurements are in thousands with a possible tolerence of 5 thousands.

12Ga 16Ga 20Ga 28Ga 410Ga
Full 36 30 25 22 20
I Mod 22 18 15 15 16
Mod 12 15 12 9 10
I Cy 4 6 6 5 5
Cy 0 0 0 0 0
SK 1 0* .69 5 0 0 *12Ga inverted 2 1/4 inches
SK 2 4 .9 10 10 10
Barrel 725-30 670+5 615-20 540-2 406-11

These are acual figures from the Winchester Custom Shop

Grant Tom